Comments on: Are microformats just bad metadata? http://dylan.tweney.com/2006/06/07/are-microformats-just-bad-metadata/ if you're bored, you're not paying attention Tue, 01 Nov 2011 12:41:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: the tweney review » Blog Archive » Technorati: Can you help?http://dylan.tweney.com/2006/06/07/are-microformats-just-bad-metadata/comment-page-1/#comment-2593 the tweney review » Blog Archive » Technorati: Can you help? Fri, 01 Sep 2006 17:09:05 +0000 http://dylan.tweney.com/2006/06/07/are-microformats-just-bad-metadata/#comment-2593 [...] Technorati’s help pages are no use — I’ve followed all the instructions there with no effect. I’ve bitched about Technorati before, so maybe someone there is pissed off at me — who knows? [...] [...] Technorati’s help pages are no use — I’ve followed all the instructions there with no effect. I’ve bitched about Technorati before, so maybe someone there is pissed off at me — who knows? [...]

]]> By: scot hacker’s foobar blog » Trouble in Tag Townhttp://dylan.tweney.com/2006/06/07/are-microformats-just-bad-metadata/comment-page-1/#comment-1756 scot hacker’s foobar blog » Trouble in Tag Town Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:53:48 +0000 http://dylan.tweney.com/2006/06/07/are-microformats-just-bad-metadata/#comment-1756 [...] Dylan Tweney comes out against Technorati’s rel= tagging scheme, and the requirement that tags be visible on the page (I’ve been irked by this requirement, but have gone along with it while waiting for something better to show up). The problem with “microformats,” which Technorati is pushing pretty hard, is that they seem to be no more than poorly implemented metadata standards. … And encoding content as part of a linked page’s URL? How much more inflexible can you get? This is supposed to be an improvement over META tags? [...] [...] Dylan Tweney comes out against Technorati’s rel= tagging scheme, and the requirement that tags be visible on the page (I’ve been irked by this requirement, but have gone along with it while waiting for something better to show up). The problem with “microformats,” which Technorati is pushing pretty hard, is that they seem to be no more than poorly implemented metadata standards. … And encoding content as part of a linked page’s URL? How much more inflexible can you get? This is supposed to be an improvement over META tags? [...]

]]> By: Alex Iskoldhttp://dylan.tweney.com/2006/06/07/are-microformats-just-bad-metadata/comment-page-1/#comment-1738 Alex Iskold Sat, 10 Jun 2006 00:45:02 +0000 http://dylan.tweney.com/2006/06/07/are-microformats-just-bad-metadata/#comment-1738 Dylan,You are right, it is hard to get visibility, but we are working on it :)There is a big difference and value add in what we do compare to collaborative bookmarking sites. We preserve semantics of the objects, enabling people to recognize what they store as everyday things as oppose to pile of links. So stay tuned and send us feedback.In terms of microformats, we all know its a tough problem, and eventhough I am putting my soul into blueorganizer building top-down solution, i know that ultimate solution needs to be bottom up.An idea different from microformats is to store information XML and just to embed the the ids of the objects into the pages. So when user clicks on the page, the browser can do: Find the ID of the current object and then ask the page provider for this object. In my mind this is cleaner solution that microformats.Alex Dylan,

You are right, it is hard to get visibility, but we are working on it :)

There is a big difference and value add in what we do compare to collaborative bookmarking sites. We preserve semantics of the objects, enabling people to recognize what they store as everyday things as oppose to pile of links. So stay tuned and send us feedback.

In terms of microformats, we all know its a tough problem, and eventhough I am putting my soul into blueorganizer building top-down solution, i know that ultimate solution needs to be bottom up.

An idea different from microformats is to store information XML and just to embed the the ids of the objects into the pages. So when user clicks on the page, the browser can do: Find the ID of the current object and then ask the page provider for this object. In my mind this is cleaner solution that microformats.

Alex

]]> By: Dylanhttp://dylan.tweney.com/2006/06/07/are-microformats-just-bad-metadata/comment-page-1/#comment-1737 Dylan Fri, 09 Jun 2006 22:11:58 +0000 http://dylan.tweney.com/2006/06/07/are-microformats-just-bad-metadata/#comment-1737 Anders-- I can appreciate your point that microformats are supposed to be quick and dirty. It's fine to set a low bar. But rel-tag doesn't even fulfill the modest design goals it sets for itself! Other than facilitating tagging on Technorati (and that not very well), rel-tag is not even close to "good enough."For stimulating discussion on metadata, though, it might be useful. I hold out hope that we could have a metadata standard that's both easy to use, easy to understand, and lightweight -- without being brain-dead.Alex-- looks like an interesting plugin... You're competing against many many other schemes/services for saving & bookmarking info, though. You'll need luck as well as skill to get any visibility in the world of del.icio.us, furl, digg, etc. Anders– I can appreciate your point that microformats are supposed to be quick and dirty. It’s fine to set a low bar. But rel-tag doesn’t even fulfill the modest design goals it sets for itself! Other than facilitating tagging on Technorati (and that not very well), rel-tag is not even close to “good enough.”

For stimulating discussion on metadata, though, it might be useful. I hold out hope that we could have a metadata standard that’s both easy to use, easy to understand, and lightweight — without being brain-dead.

Alex– looks like an interesting plugin… You’re competing against many many other schemes/services for saving & bookmarking info, though. You’ll need luck as well as skill to get any visibility in the world of del.icio.us, furl, digg, etc.

]]> By: Andershttp://dylan.tweney.com/2006/06/07/are-microformats-just-bad-metadata/comment-page-1/#comment-1730 Anders Thu, 08 Jun 2006 22:57:59 +0000 http://dylan.tweney.com/2006/06/07/are-microformats-just-bad-metadata/#comment-1730 Frankly, yes, microformats are bad metadata. But that's ok.I think you've misunderstood the goals that have driven the microformats design. The idea is to lightly codify and standardize existing practices rather than invent end-all-be-all metadata solutions. Simplicity is more important that comprehensiveness and purity. If you want comprehensive, extensible metadata, RDF already exists. Microformats, by virtue of being simple to implement without big changes to existing tools (eg, rel-tag support can be added to most sites with a minor template tweak) stand a chance of actually being used by the unwashed masses who aren't librarians or metadata experts. The hope is that widespread adoption of "good enough" metadata will allow us to collectively achieve some of the aims of the semantic web much faster than sparse adoption of "perfect" metadata. With any luck, it might even bootstrap something a little more rigorous into existence. Frankly, yes, microformats are bad metadata. But that’s ok.

I think you’ve misunderstood the goals that have driven the microformats design. The idea is to lightly codify and standardize existing practices rather than invent end-all-be-all metadata solutions. Simplicity is more important that comprehensiveness and purity. If you want comprehensive, extensible metadata, RDF already exists. Microformats, by virtue of being simple to implement without big changes to existing tools (eg, rel-tag support can be added to most sites with a minor template tweak) stand a chance of actually being used by the unwashed masses who aren’t librarians or metadata experts. The hope is that widespread adoption of “good enough” metadata will allow us to collectively achieve some of the aims of the semantic web much faster than sparse adoption of “perfect” metadata. With any luck, it might even bootstrap something a little more rigorous into existence.

]]> By: Alex Iskoldhttp://dylan.tweney.com/2006/06/07/are-microformats-just-bad-metadata/comment-page-1/#comment-1725 Alex Iskold Thu, 08 Jun 2006 03:01:15 +0000 http://dylan.tweney.com/2006/06/07/are-microformats-just-bad-metadata/#comment-1725 Agree with you on most points. Metadata has to be clear and unambigous, otherwise it leads to more confusion. As far plugin that parses pages, this is exactly what we developed at adaptiveblue. I would be curious to know what you think about our work.http://www.adaptiveblue.comAlex Agree with you on most points. Metadata has to be clear and unambigous, otherwise it leads to more confusion. As far plugin that parses pages, this is exactly what we developed at adaptiveblue. I would be curious to know what you think about our work.

http://www.adaptiveblue.com

Alex

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